November 4, 2014 at 11:57 am #132012
So I found recently and frankly it’s been bothering me since I read it. This seems like an incredibly vitriolic reaction to a fair criticism, especially to a Turbo who was apologizing to him. Anybody else have any thoughts on this? I would be curious to hear Fraser’s side of the story as to why he responded the way he did.
Edit: here’s the post since I can’t get the link to work:
November 4, 2014 at 12:13 pm #132016
This guy was angry that Fraser didn’t like a game that he liked, so he decided to act like a bit of an ass about it.
End of storyNovember 4, 2014 at 12:32 pm #132021
I disagree, I honestly feel the guy is in the right. I honestly do believe Fraser can hate a game for the “wrong” reasons (Lack of paying attention, ignoring prompts given to him, letting a small bad part cloud the entire experience, etc.) but I also think he can have valid criticisms of a game as well. Fraser and some mods as well can also react to arguments with a lot of vitriol (Although I fully understand where this comes from). All in all, I think it’s just a matter of not criticizing the Gang for being occasional idiots for not noticing things, and instead encourage them to give it a chance and offer advice as to how the game works.November 4, 2014 at 12:35 pm #132022
That “fan” acted like a jerk, his twitter name is aggressive towards another youtuber, he couldn’t just leave the topic alone and kept bothering Fraser with it and in the end he wrote a whiny bloq entry about how incredibly unfair everyone was and how a short comment from Fraser made him “disillusioned” and all of that, because Fraser didn’t like a game and a mod told him to leave?…yeah, no.
Sorry, dude, but I have no mercy at all.
Fraser and I have had disagreements as well, but not in a million years would I be angry or “disillusioned”, if he told me to fuck off, after being bothered for a while.
He looks like he’s nearly 30, just saying.
Also, not trying to be a jerk, but it’s funny how you “just found this” and decided to create an account for this thread.November 4, 2014 at 1:05 pm #132024
He apologized for his remarks and then left it at that, then Fraser responded, 12 hours later. Not to mention, his problem with the show seemed to be less that they weren’t liking the game and more that they were complaining about things that weren’t really issues with the game itself and that they’re complaining was affecting the entertainment value of the show. Something other people have also taken issue with as evidenced by the Phoenix Wright thread on this forum.
I think the thing that got to me was that it comes across as though Fraser blocked him for saying he dislike an episode of the show.
I found the post because I found the tweets when I was browsing back through the VGA twitter and wanted to see how other fans felt about it.
I understand that youtubers like VGA get a lot of hate, but I’m just thinking about it from the perspective of someone who paid $50 to support a show, and then was blocked and told to fuck off and stop watching the show because he said he thought the commentary on one show wasn’t good.November 4, 2014 at 1:12 pm #132026
He didn’t apologize. He apologized and then quickly took a couple more jabs at Fraser and Becky. If he had just said “I’m sorry for my earlier comments” and left it at that, it would have been fine, but adding those comments about “immaturity” and “bad enough”? Come on. He shouldn’t have tagged Fraser’s account on twitter. That right there shows he wanted to get under his skin.November 4, 2014 at 1:19 pm #132029
But that’s not how it happened.
He complained during the show and was told to stop it or leave.
I have no idea what he said, obviously, but it must’ve been either bad or multiple times, if a moderator told him to leave.
After this he decided to comment on the youtube video and said that he was no longer a fan or supporter of the show.
Again: Because Fraser ad Becky didn’t like the game and he was told to enjoy the show or leave.
He didn’t come to the forums or the chat after the show, he decided to go to youtube and pretty much tell Fraser that he has lost a fan and how bad the episode was.
After Iso cleared some thing up with him, he did in fact apologize, but just had to call Fraser and Becky immature and compare them to DSP for some reason.
Fraser, being pissed off then blocked him, but the guy still didn’t leave it at that and tweeted Frasers other Twitter-account to again complain and again compare him to DSP, which was talked about in this forum long and hard enough and borders as inulting at this point.
I am not a brown-nose, like I said, I disagree with Fraser all the time, but this guys deserved what he got and him whining in his bloq is nothing more than sad.November 4, 2014 at 1:35 pm #132030
I think there should always be room for constructive criticism and advice.
But what this guy did really doesn’t come off as that. He just complained because he didn’t like how the game was played, and took it too seriously and made a big deal out of why he didn’t like it.November 4, 2014 at 1:58 pm #132033
After considering the posts some of you have made in response and looking over what the guy said, I do have to say I see where you’re coming from. The guy should’ve just dropped the issue after apologizing rather than reiterate his criticism of the show and was rather passive aggressive. I may have felt that Fraser’s response was over the top due to working in a customer service field where we have to handle complainers with kid gloves, lol. In any case, I want to thank you guys for giving me some perspective on this.November 4, 2014 at 2:06 pm #132034
the moral of the story: trolls can be trolls and sometimes a tiny troll will try to dethrone a king troll…..so why are we giving this asshole(the blogger)more attention? we know that Frasers standpoint for people that don’t like the show is “stop watching” and the “fuck off” stuff probably was just him having a bad day, also the fact that Fraser gets this kind of shit ALL the time. but the fact that the blogger got on a alternate account and started shit again SHOWS what the fucker is doing and what he wants:attention. lets just try to drop this shit, NOT forget…but stop giving attention to it,November 4, 2014 at 2:32 pm #132039
I would have thought for someone who’s been familiar with the show for over a year should know better than to say something and not expect a reply. also you should have known how Fraser likes certain video games. Fraser always mocks video games. I totally understand that he isn’t familiar with a Warriors game nor did he have and interest int he game style. It was just a Zelda themed game, nothing more.
Though the guy was very respectful instead of unleashing every curse word in the book like most people would. he seemed very calm with the argument. Though I don’t think it’s fair to judge Fraser by calling him out like that than to talk to him about it. It could have been easily mistaken with the tone and message the guy used to think he was some random hater.November 4, 2014 at 3:39 pm #132044
why are y’all arguing over something that happened a month ago. Just remember. in the past 5 years alone. Fraser has told 1/4 of the turbos to “fuck off”. and how many times has he told the chat in general to “fuck off”
as far as this person’s comments go. Maybe he was and “active fan” but how much of the recorded stream has he watched. far to many people don’t realize how much Fraser has going of during the show. yes there was a minimap, but iirc Fraser mention not understanding the minimap. and what each of the different colors, and the flashing colors mean. Sometimes Fraser gets so caught up in keeping the game moving forward. and being entertaining. that he tends to forget details. and when he does forget the chat both shadow and turbo alike demonizes him for “not paying attention”. people calling him a sociopath because of the decision he makes in a video game. then not long a go he question the chat why he and angry Joe have similar opinion about the new godzilla movie. Yet everyone loves Joe’s review. while Fraser was criticized for it. Not one person could give Fraser a reasonable answer. I get annoyed by it all I think they all deserve a lot more respect then they actually get from people.
I think all things considered that man has a lot of patience, cause I know I would have gotten rid of the chat, blocked comments on youtube videos, and completely disconnected myself from the viewership, but then that would change the dynamic of the show. and perhaps that fact is what fuels his patience.November 4, 2014 at 4:06 pm #132047
You do make a good point there jdon79. I wouldn’t blame Fraser since he’s dealt with alot moreNovember 4, 2014 at 4:10 pm #132048
As someone who has loved and devoted most of their time to this show for 9 years I can see the sides of both arguments. I can completely see why Fraser was hostile immediately, because Fraser has to deal with extremely hateful people day in and day out and he assumed this guy was one of them. He didn’t know the whole story and it makes complete sense why he would do that. But on the other hand I do think Fraser should realise his public presence is kinda scary. Everytime I post a comment in the chat I hope and pray Fraser doesn’t yell at me for something I said. It hasn’t happened yet but I feel it totally could. I think what Fraser needs to realise is that some of his fans (unlike the trolls, which there are quite a few of) have good intentions and would never dream of hurting Fraser’s feelings. And that when a fan criticises him its out of love and concern and not hate. So when Fraser insults them the way he does most take it personally and it really hurts their feelings. The worst part about it is I know Fraser doesn’t mean to bully people. He loves his fans a lot. He just simply doesn’t know that when he really insults a game or something he doesn’t really know about and mocks it fans of the game or thing he doesn’t know take it personally. They think that when Fraser insults something he’s saying “I don’t like this and anyone who does is stupid and a fucking asshole” which is simply not true. But I can understand why some fans feels that way. Hell, even I get a little depressed when Fraser dismisses or mocks something that I love. I think if pthis person simply apologised and told Fraser about his dislike for his hostility in say, a thread post Fraser would probably apologise. He’s done it before. Though I will have to point out this guy’s complaints, viewpoint, and comments seem a bit rude but hey what do I know? All in all if you are in an argument its important to know that you should respect both sides and realise words can hurt sometimes and you should be careful what you say. Hope this helped!
Cursive Out! :)November 4, 2014 at 4:27 pm #132053
The guy wasn’t exactly a perfect person, but Fraser certainly wasn’t either. Compared to other Youtubers who deal with larger viewing bases and thus far more hatred, he doesn’t deal with them very well. Fraser often telling the whole chat or specific users to fuck off doesn’t exactly come across as pleasant. There were far more mature ways to deal with this, and he chose one that wasn’t. Being yelled at by someone you’re a fan of for disagreeing with them isn’t a pleasant experience, and it doesn’t feel like anything could be done about it.November 4, 2014 at 5:22 pm #132056
Fraser can be overly aggressive sometimes but I have zero tolerance for people being whiny insulting fuckers and then pretending to be the victim. Fuck off, you got offended because they made jokes about a video game. I mean, I’m the big Xenoblade fan here arguably and I didn’t get mad at when they no-sold it as anime garbage at E3.
And DSP is awful but the people harassing him are still pathetic and creepy with how obsessed they are with hating a single youtube channel.
November 4, 2014 at 5:29 pm #132058
- This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by kkslider555.
Fraser’s said multiple times that he won’t pretend to be someone else to “win” viewers over. The show is very much about who he is and how he plays a game. He’s well within his rights to block people who are attacking him and it’s perfectly fair to react to a person’s rude behavior by telling them what you think of them. There’s no reason to try and win back a viewer who’s trying to tell you off. It’s, in fact, dishonest to lie to them to “save face.” Fraser takes the show personally, as he should, malicious attacks affect him, sometimes. If you feel like you’d take them differently, then I doubt you’ve been on the receiving end the vitriol he has. There’s no reason Fraser should have to put up with things like this. If you disagree, have a conversation; don’t start out with an attack.
And anyone who still can’t get over Fraser saying “fuck you” to chat when it’s clearly he’s talking to an individual does, indeed, need to get over it. This is who Fraser is, and he won’t change to make you feel better.
What I remember of this ordeal, is that ‘ranter’ apologized to us (the mods) and not Fraser.November 4, 2014 at 5:37 pm #132061
I’ll actually add one more thing: “Fraser was a dick to me = Fraser is a dick” is what happens a lot of the time. Keep in mind the way he treats all the people who don’t attack him for “playing a game wrong.” Which was the ranter’s original problem in the first place.November 4, 2014 at 6:00 pm #132062
@jdon79 amen brother.it takes ALOT of balls to tolerate the kind of slander that networking sites can bring, not only youtube but Twitter too…and Fraser deals with BOTH.November 4, 2014 at 6:05 pm #132064
So we should just be okay with being told to fuck off?November 4, 2014 at 6:22 pm #132071
Yes. You should. You are not entitled to be treated any way. If you say something that pisses Fraser off, then he is within his rights to tell you to fuck off. Especially since he frequently tells “Chat” to fuck off, and not individuals. If you take this personally, frankly, that’s on you. Especially-especially when half the time it’s a sarcastic for laughs, “playing along” sarcasm. And, holy-shit-especially, if you’re trying to antagonize, insult, or otherwise demean the way the man is making his living.
People seem to be under the impression that Fraser works for them. He doesn’t. He offers entertainment, several times a week, while being attacked from all sides for how he does it, while the people who enjoy the show simply enjoy the show in relative silence for the most part. You should really, really be okay with it when he tells you to fuck off being… a dick, antagonistic, insulting, childish, demanding he play the game your way, or otherwise trollish.
He is not there to make you feel better. He’s there to be himself, and when people decide to, often on purpose, piss him off, he is under no obligation to go, “Oh, sorry, you’re right, I’m the asshole here.”
If you feel like people are entitled to be treated a certain way, find one of those shows that do everything their fans demand of them that offer no substance and only do what the fans want instead of trying to be honest, innovate, be themselves.
In short, the ranter, while taking some of what he said back (and saying I should get a raise), went on the offensive about how Fraser played a game “wrong,” which is always BS. Fraser was within his right to block the user to not receive more hate from him, expressing how he felt at the time.
In short, *you* were not told to fuck off. You are taking a generalized, often sarcastic remark as a personal attack. If you were in Fraser’s position, dollar to donuts, you’d have done the same.November 4, 2014 at 6:32 pm #132072
If you don’t like the way Fraser is playing a game, either respect his way of playing or stop watching.
Yes, Fraser will suck at times, yes he will play the game his way, he will do things that might piss you off.
However, it’s his show, it’s his game. If you don’t like it, stop watching.
There is no wrong way to play a game!November 4, 2014 at 6:49 pm #132078November 4, 2014 at 7:07 pm #132081
@kkslider555 “I mean, I’m the big Xenoblade fan here arguably” I’ll fight you for the big Xenoblade fan title. :b
Anyway, I doubt there is much I can say here that people haven’t already said, but just to add my voice to the subject: taking a joking sarcastic remark Fraser says to heart is ridiculous, and telling someone that they’re playing a game wrong is even more so. Fraser’s allowed to dislike a game, and he’s also allowed to not sit there and passively take someone insulting him.November 4, 2014 at 8:34 pm #132082
I think everything that should be said about this situation has been said but I really want to commend all of you for having such a great conversation on the matter. This easily could have turned nasty but this was handled perfectly by everyone here. Bravo, buddies!November 4, 2014 at 10:44 pm #132086
Iso, and others, I think are really misinterpreting what criticisms towards the gang really are. It’s not about “you better agree with me or else your wrong” or “your playing the game wrong”, it’s about uninformed opinions and the great amount of vitriol thrown about towards both individual watchers and the chat itself. I want to make this perfectly clear, I do like the show, and I do enjoy chatting with you guys on the forums. But I think we can all agree that most of us get mad at Fraser (even a tiny bit) when his complaining about a game not telling him something when we ourselves, who may have never touched it, can see it plain as day. When some of that anger is released, mods are very quick to throw out timeouts, and there’s very much an attitude of “you don’t like it watch something else” as the go to response instead of listening to the person and trying to come to some sort of conclusion. Overall, I think what people want from Fraser is to improve his relationship with people who disagree with him, instead of having this “my way or the highway” approach.November 5, 2014 at 12:08 am #132091
Oh boy a whiny furry with a tumblr who is happy to chuck the old DSP insult about but as soon as he is told to fuck off he acts the victim color me surprised. “I-I only called him DSP (A man I hate enough to stalk online) and he told me to fuck off.”
I don’t know how you can even read his blubbering without seeing he is in the wrong hell he even has screenshots showing his constant negative criticism.
Hopefully he will learn to stay in his hugbox then face the horrifying idea that people may not like or understand the game he likes.
The only thing you should expect from a show about watching someone play videogames, Is watching someone play and react to videogames. You shouldn’t expect someone better or worse then you at playing nor should you care if they don’t see something you do and complain about it. People have an expectation that if a person is streaming videogames they should be average or pro at games. The only skill you really need is to be able to set up a stream and the sooner people realize that the better. Tough love or not.November 5, 2014 at 12:34 am #132092
dwarfthrower, I disgree with you.
It’s his show, his game. Go and buy the game yourself if you don’t like the way he does it. (Trying to say this in a nice way, sorry if it does not sound nice)
(Fraser wants you to buy the game, not just watch him play it)
I don’t see a reason for Fraser to change.
When I play a game, I don’t want to be told what to do, or have people give me hints, or even advice. I wouldn’t want a back seat gamer telling me what to think or how to play. It’s my game, it’s my show(pretending I have a show), if I feel comfortable doing things a certain way, I will stick to it.
If it ain’t broke, don’t try to fix it. His show is not broke, so no reason to change it.November 5, 2014 at 12:54 am #132094
@dwarfthrower At what point did Fraser even ask for criticism on his play style or his opinions? He’s allowed to have opinions on the games he plays. He won’t tip-toe around when a game has faults, lack-luster game-play, cheesy dialogue, glitches, poor AI, complicated instructions. His opinions are not Right or Wrong, they are his own, and he is allowed to share those opinions because (Like we tell everyone that wants to drop in their two cents) It’s his show. Plain and Simple. He entertains, and the chat is there to interact, not critique. We say “If you don’t like it, watch something else”, because some can’t contain their own criticism or anger, and feel like they are entitled to let the crew know it. (As you have seen from the opening thread).
One more thing
Not everyone can say “we all see it plain as day!” You don’t speak for everyone, you seem to think that you speak for all or most of us. Don’t try to build your argument with involving more than yourself.November 5, 2014 at 1:39 am #132098
@mellisbaker Thanks for responding. In regards to critique, you are right in the aspect that Fraser is not asking for critique in regards to his gameplay or his opinions, but that doesn’t’ make the critique worthless or wrong automatically. To give a very simple example, Person A is about to cross a bridge, and Person B responds by saying that he thinks it’s not a good idea. Person A responds with “I didn’t ask for your opinion” and crosses the bridge anyway. The attitude of dismissing criticism simply because it wasn’t asked for is, to be frank, anti-intellectual. Criticism and opinions, even if they are different from ours or not even asked, should be considered and judged on their own merits and reasoning.
In how this applies to the show, Fraser liking or hating a game based on limited information is a bad practice that he needs to work on. (Such as his immediate dismissal of Kingdom Hearts based on his own biased opinions about the main characters) On the other hand, when he has played a game for a considerable amount of time he can usually give very good opinions that for the most part have examples and reasoning behind them. (For example the companion AI in Alien Isolation, repetitiveness in Hyrule Warriors combat, or glitches in Skyrim.) It’s also perfectly fine to place value on certain aspects of games that others would dismiss. (Fraser for instance gets very angry at games that run 30 frames a second, while others would just shrug their shoulders.)
You are right about the last part though, that was egotistical of me. Just because I may have played a lot of games in the same genres and pick up on details faster doesn’t mean everyone else can.November 5, 2014 at 2:02 am #132101
If Fraser owns the bridge, then he can cross that bridge any way he likes.
It’s all about ownership.
Here’s a better example.
You go into a store, see an employee stocking the shelves.
You don’t like the way he’s doing it, and you suggest to him to do it a certain way.
Don’t you think that would piss him off?
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