July 11, 2012 at 10:58 pm #42249
Ooh, is there a way we can get a 6 on 6 team to cooperiate a perfect camp setup. I want to see how hard it is to get out of spawn and see how legit this argument is.
Maybe Harvest would be the best experiment. There’s only two doors to get out of after all.
July 11, 2012 at 11:58 pm #42255
- This reply was modified 10 months, 1 week ago by gukingofheart.
We’re all very stubborn when is comes to the argument of Spawn Camping. So, I’m going to play devil’s advocate and defend both sides.
Spawn camping sucks balls. When you have multiple people waiting for you exist to be killed in second, its frustrating and it takes away the enjoyment. The 2 worst examples I have experienced while playing tf2(in general) are as followed: 1) Having an annoying spy waiting for you to exist just so he can backstab you. It’s a pain is the rump because he/she will keep doing over and over and to make matters worst, they’ll move. 2) Being in a server with those sh*tty premiums were a person will pay so they can cheat. I have seen people set up 5 – 10 sentries at any exists for an instant kill.
This will TRULY hurt the VGA tf2 server is that it will turn-off new turbos, both new and expert players. Hell, maybe even seeing this thread is mostly scaring people away. I enjoy seeing new people in the server because they have the chance of creating the bounds that we have made ourselves. However, if spawn camping continues, some people may end up leaving because they lost the only server on web that was a safe-heaving from annoying 12 year olds, COD douche bag bro types, and trolls posting gross porn sprays.
If you want to win, then do what it takes to win. If you don’t like getting killed over and over again, then change your strategy. If I see a heavy and a medic outside my door waiting to shoot me down, I simply change to spy and make sure the dead ringer is equipped. I get shot on purpose, dead ring, runaway, comeback while disguised, and hand them some backstabbing justice. That was not that hard to do that at all.
Now lets take a quick look at the way how real wars are fought. The number one strategy is to camp the enemy base and send wave, after wave, after wave of bullets. They don’t run out to the middle of the field because that is stupid. They sit back and shot, and let the enemy get killed for running out blindly. Now when implementing those tactic to a video game, it is seen as cheap and jerk way to play. That is playing smart. Call it a cheap way to win but in the end of it all, a win is a win.
So, Merry ChristmasJuly 12, 2012 at 12:13 am #42258
It’s allowed on the server and you won’t get punished for doing it, but it is also most dishonorable and not fun. So if you want to be like that and throw jarate in the face of honor, go ahead!July 12, 2012 at 1:52 am #42282
For the tl;dr version of my post – I’m not sure everyone is even on the same page with regard to spawn camping and what it actually entails. To me it’s more a question of what the powers-that-be have said and their word is law. But as this topic is more about expressing opinions on the subject, I feel like rambling and expressing my own thoughts as well.
So here they are.
|-[ Begin Long Winded Self-Indulgence ]-|
|-[ You Should Skip This If You Don't Care About My Opinion ]-|
I very much dislike the concept of spawn camping, and hearing Fraser say it’s okay was disappointing… originally. But that was because I date back a few years and based on all I have read since the original statement, I believe that I have a varied definition of spawn camping.
I go back to games like Action Quake II and Half-Life Deathmatch. So my idea of spawn camping is different.
For me, spawn camping is when a player or players actively move into position overlooking the opposing spawn site and spend the rest of the game killing players as they re-spawn. It’s a sad exploit to drive up a kill count and troll other players in a very negative sense.
Spawn killing is a strategy. It’s a concerted and deliberate effort by a player or players to attack an enemy spawn to hold back the opposing team for a short time. It’s an attack and not a continuous effort to exploit the game.
Mind you, spawn killing is still something I personally frown upon. It’s still an effort to prevent players from entering the game proper. To reference kshade’s post, “…it is also most dishonorable and not fun.” But it isn’t continuous and usually, once the attack has been broken, you would see the same players joining a battle over a cap point or flag or some such target.
And of course, there’s the occasional opponent that simply wanders into enemy territory and get’s into a fight with the newly re-spawned. That’s just the way the game evolves in any given battle.
It’s for these varied definitions that I take everything I read and hear regarding this subject with a hefty serving of salt.
The main point that I have always understood on this subject regarding Team Fortress Awesome is that the strategic side of this matter (Spawn Killing by my own opinions) is allowed. And that abuse or exploit of such a practice (Spawn Camping by my own opinions) is to be policed by teams themselves as long as it can be done reasonably.
I’m okay with that. I’ve had fun. And the final say falls to the admin and the mods. That would be Fraser and the mod team. If this is their policy then I respect that.
I sort of view this as a displeased rant and I can understand. Especially if there was an effort to spawn camp en masse. But the point remains. Fraser is not going to change his mind over a single incident and neither is anyone else.
My personal opinion on the matter, failing an ability to break the attack, is that I should tough it out until teams scramble / maps change or drop from the game and come back later.
That would be my recommendation to anyone. But bare in mind I’m nobody. That’s just my two cents plus a lot of rambling and nostalgia. To be perfectly honest, I’m not sure why I felt like discussing this, but I did. Chalk it up to tired feelings or maybe even a desire to play some TF2 while I can’t due to occupied system resources. Whatever.
It’s my humble opinion and I hope someone at least finds it interesting or amusing. Otherwise, I’ve wasted your time.
|-[ End Long Winded Self-Indulgence ]-|
|-[ You Should Have Skipped This If You Didn't Care About My Opinion ]-|
tl;dr – See previous text.July 12, 2012 at 5:48 pm #42412
While i dont like the idea of spawn camping; cause is not fun for everyone, i only see myself doing one type of camping in order to progress.
That is killing everyone out of the telepoter when an engineer is too stubborn to let there teleporter die. I hate having to sap for 10 minutes a telporter with 3 engineers on there other side fixing it, so i find it easier to kill anyone who come out of it. I dont like doing it, but i feel force since is either stay there forever and spam the killfeed or force them to destroy there teleporter themselves.July 15, 2012 at 4:14 pm #42992
Does it break any rules or abuse any glitches? No? then it’s allowed.
There’s a difference between a dick move and an illegal move.July 16, 2012 at 9:06 pm #43253
It depends on what class we’re talking about. Not all classes can hold down an entire spawn alone. The only class that I’ve seen that can hold down a one exit spawn continuously by himself would be Demoman. It is a dick move to do it and it should be illegal because it pisses people off. Pissed of people on a server is not a good thing. If Fraser wants to keep people playing on the server, he should probably make spawn camping illegal. I would understand if people left the server because of assholes spawn camping all the time. If I didn’t find it fun to play, I wouldn’t play either.July 16, 2012 at 9:37 pm #43259
I think I got a perfect rule to make everything fair for everyone.
Rule #1 – If your camping and at least a few people on your Team agree that you should stop..then stop!
Rule #1B – If a few people on the opposite team are getting annoyed with you spawn camping…then stop!
If it’s just one person(not counting empty servers) then why are they asking you to stop…because they can’t figure a way to beat you? I say try harder.
However if you get a few people spawn camping or you have a really skilled playing holding down the fort then give the other team at least a chance.July 16, 2012 at 9:39 pm #43262
There won’t be a rule against spawn camping. We had that, but Fraser overruled it.July 16, 2012 at 9:48 pm #43264
It’s an unofficial rule.
If your on blue and everyone is yelling at you to stop on both sides..well the respectfully thing to do would be to stop.
If only one person complains, keep camping!
July 16, 2012 at 9:52 pm #43266
- This reply was modified 10 months ago by gukingofheart.
Did you just try to overrule Fraser’s overruling? I will smack you.July 16, 2012 at 9:53 pm #43267
Me? No..it was a typo.
I forgot the un in official ;)July 17, 2012 at 12:16 am #43282
There won’t be a rule against spawn camping. We had that, but Fraser overruled it.
That’s because Fraser is way too disconnected from the community. He should probably listen a bit more to the community and his mods.July 17, 2012 at 12:18 am #43283July 17, 2012 at 12:22 am #43286
kshade: Do you really want to go there? Isn’t it because, oh, I don’t know, he owns the place?
I’m not going anywhere. I’m just saying that an “I own it and therefor I’m correct 100% of the time” mentality could be bad in the long run. People should be able to voice their concerns because they are a part of this community.
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