Too Many Changes in Majora's Mask 3D?

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This topic contains 44 replies, has 18 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Nara nara 1 year, 11 months ago.

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  • #138424
    Profile photo of BluHawk007
    bluehawk007
    Member

    Anyone else feel there are way too many changes in MM3D? I went from hyped to really not hyped at all honestly, as almost all the changes, aside from the graphics and framerate, are bad. The remake has far too much handholding, some immersion killing elements, and general changes to control and gameplay that are just flat out lame.

    Heres some of the worst that I’ve noticed:
    -Bomber’s Notebook too intrusive and takes away problem solving by giving answers
    -Skipping to any point in time you want with the song of double time
    -Deku Water Skipping was made more annoying
    -Zora Swimming is lame now unless you’re using your magic meter (and even then makes a really annoying sound)
    -Fishing…why? The heck is the point or reward? AND Y U MESS WITH TERMINA’S WORLD?!
    -No freedom with making platforms with ice arrows anymore ( only allows certain places to be shot…ruins puzzles and exploration)
    -Deku Link doesn’t look like wood anymore

    I’m not really feeling this remake tbh. Shame too, I was really hype!

    • This topic was modified 2 years ago by Profile photo of BluHawk007 bluehawk007.
Viewing 30 replies - 1 through 30 (of 44 total)
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  • #138426
    Profile photo of hrotgarmr
    hrotgarmr
    Member

    I haven’t played it yet, despite MM being the only Zelda I really enjoyed.
    However: I think the song of double time is a good thing.
    I probably won’t use it to go back in time all that often, because that would make the point of the game a little moot and the whole thing a little too easy, but it is a great tool to make some parts less annoying.

    Minor spoiler: I’ll always remember how boring it is to wait for the first bossfight to start.
    You know, the one with Skull kid that only triggers right before the moon hits?
    When I had a good run I sometimes had to wait 30-45 minutes for it to start, because I was too fast.
    This is annoying and can now be avoided.

    Not sure about the rest of the changes,though, I’ll see soon, I guess.

    #138427
    Profile photo of synchiropus
    synchiropus
    Member

    I can understand some changes being made to suit being on a portable, but I’m not a fan of a lot of them. The ice arrow change is particularly bad.

    @hrotgarmr The song of double time being in the game won’t change that because you don’t have the ocarina during the first cycle, but can’t you just skip to the night of the third day by using the scarecrows?

    #138433
    Profile photo of Gazriel
    gazrielv
    Member

    This game isn’t out yet.. Fuck.

    #138439
    Profile photo of tgorman83
    tgorman83
    Member

    From what I’ve read on the changes the bombers notebook was made the way it was because apparently some of the side missions are so obscure or unnecessarily confusing to figure out that they wanted to make the missions easier to understand. While I’m not sure I think the being able to skip to certain points of the day was made so players wouldn’t have to do any tedious waiting around just to get to a single point of a quest they were on. As to the zoras swimming and deku skipping I don’t know what that is as I haven’t played the game. As for fishing, So what? If its optional and it doesn’t take anything away from the game why should it be considered a negative? I also don’t know what the ice arrow thing is so I guess I’ll wait until I play it to see for myself. As for the deku link not looking like wood, it seems like a small price to pay for all the new bells and whistles in the game but I guess I’ll wait until I play the game to be sure. Also as gazrielv said, the game isn’t even out yet so I think we should wait until its actually out before we make decide whether or not the changes are good or bad.

    #138446
    Profile photo of BluHawk007
    bluehawk007
    Member

    The fishing just seems weird. Why shoehorn it in? Like, what are the rewards for it?
    I dunno, it just seemed like a silly thing to add imo.

    #138448
    Profile photo of Gingy
    Gingy
    Member

    The notebook and ice arrows are imo, the two worst changes by far.

    @tgorman83 As someone who played Majora’s Mask as a wee-lil-boy without any help from older siblings or guides (no internet!), I’m going to have to disagree with side missions being too confusing or hard to understand.

    #138450
    Profile photo of tgorman83
    tgorman83
    Member

    @gingy based on what you said it was probably easy for you to figure out. However I think there are a lot of people that don’t understand how to get to the side missions. Disclaimer: I have not played the game so maybe when i do get it I’ll find out that your totally right but from what i’ve seen around this old internet there are quite a few others who think that the missions are difficult to figure out or access. I don’t see it as a bad thing. I think there just making the getting to the missions easier and not actually turning the guide into a super easy mode. @Bluhawk007 no idea why they added it in. Maybe they just added as an extra little thing. I don’t see anything wrong with it since it doesn’t appear to damage or take anything away from the rest of the game.

    #138454
    Profile photo of TJgalon
    TJgalon
    Member

    A few people who have reviewed the game, said, while some of the changes are questionable and opinion on them may vary, it still the Majora Mask you remember. I guess they could have just ported it directly but they did what they did, and I feel like it can still be great.

    It funny, I thought people would complain more about OoT water temple, they took the simple dungeon and pretty much draw you the path, lol.

    @bluehawk007 Song of double time, I think only allows you to skip forward, not backwards, you still need to return to the past for that.
    They also tweak the game a little, with saving anytime now, at the statues of course, but they put in extra ones, to aid in saving too., good or bad, for that. Rupee bank is now in the main area of clock town, to easier to get to, and on a return trip. The deku shrub seller guy, his animation was cut way down on any return trip to him as well.

    I guess the swimming sucks a little, and ice arrows, but the duku jumping not that bad from what i seen, just a minor adjustment to peplle of the old ways.

    • This reply was modified 2 years ago by Profile photo of TJgalon TJgalon.
    #138456
    Profile photo of SkittleE
    SkittleE
    Member

    “Oh no, I can choose a specific time to jump forward to now so I’m not waiting around forever for something to happen, and they also added an optional little minigame that in no way will effect my playthrough if I choose not to participate in it. What a nightmare!” :b

    Seriously though, I’ve been seeing so many complaints about such inconsequential changes to the game. The ice arrows is the complaint I can most understand, but aren’t those only used for a couple puzzles in the game anyway? Other than that, a few things were made less annoying and more accessible to people. I’m not sure what the big deal is.

    #138460
    Profile photo of kkslider555
    kkslider555
    Member

    I’ve heard mixed things about the notebook. I’m not sure how much of it is true. Some are saying it just leads you towards the path you would likely now about anyway and keeps focus on what you actually need to do, others saying it intentionally spoils things. And like it’s too contradicting for me to believe anyone right now.

    Honestly most of the other changes are either things I don’t care about in the slightest or are the right idea that just didn’t think of the implications of changing it. Let me be honest, the Ice Arrow thing SUUUUUUCKS in the original. It is so annoying, the best places to put those platforms seemingly decide because you’re a quarter inch too close to land it’s not gonna make ice. Even when it’s clearly nowhere close enough to be an issue. So making it more obvious is fine, since it’s not some great puzzle or anything. But making it so you can’t make ice anywhere else is just kinda dick-ish to people who like to do weird speedrunner things in these games. Also, I love Zora swimming so that change is unnecessary and annoying, it’s not worth any sacrifice just because moving in the temple lead to Link getting headaches.

    That being said, even if I was annoyed I would say. 1. Everyone whose never played Majora’s Mask should still buy this, because people need to play Majora’s Mask. 2. Everyone else should not buy it because if you own Majora’s Mask STOP BUYING THE SAME FUCKING GAMES YOU ALREADY OWN.

    #138463
    Profile photo of Nara
    nara
    Member

    So anyone complaining about these changes might find themselves
    in a much different situation if this was their first time
    playing it. seriously guys, Majora’s Mask is one of the most
    tedious games on the original. Completing it for your first time
    without a guide is almost impossible (I’ve tried) and that’s why
    I got put off of it after the second dungeon. With the new changes,
    I might be able to complete it now. Don’t get put off by your nostalgia for
    the game and how dare they make changes to a game that I love. It’s just to
    make more people fall in love with your favourite game. If all the old
    mechanics were intact, no one would play it, because it is so tedious.
    I appreciate the changes and I could give you tons of counterarguments on why
    any system of MM needed to be changed. Just stop being whiny about it.
    I simply can’t stand this whining everywhere anymore. You people say, that Nintendo
    doesn’t innovate enough and now you want them to just port over the game to 3DS without any changes.

    #138464

    So maybe Nintendo made these changes to suit a younger audience? I mean, there are some missions that are just downright “What Even?”, and this generation of young gamers are pretty reliant on tutorials and stuff. Younger gamers always expect everything to be layed out before them, and that’s kind of exactly what Nintendo is doing with Majora’s Mask 3D.

    Although, in my opinion, the changes with the Song of Double Time, the Ice Arrows and Deku Link’s texture change are kinda stupid.

    #138468
    Profile photo of TJgalon
    TJgalon
    Member

    @kkslider555 While I can’t recall everything in the game, a review of it I watch, mention that the notebook does sometimes spoil things. there a item you can pickup, and the book mention who you give it to, even if you did not know that before you get it.

    #138478
    Profile photo of Vanquish123
    Vanquish123
    Member

    @kkslider555 I’m not sure if you’re serious or not, but… What’s wrong with having multiple copies of the same game (digital included)? You act as if this is some huge problem in the industry, but who are you to tell me what to do with my money? Who is this hurting exactly? If I’m a fan of a specific title I’ll more than likely keep my physical copy and purchase it again digitally. Nevertheless, this Majora’s Mask is a remake. Whether I’ll like it or not I’ll eventually find out, but I think the enhancements are enough to warrant an upgrade from my N64 version.

    #138481
    Profile photo of haxo
    haxo
    Member

    I miss the days when nintendo didn’t target spoiled brats.

    R.I.P The simpsons 1989-2000.

    #138483
    Profile photo of Gingy
    Gingy
    Member

    The problem isn’t specifically that they target lazy kids nowadays. The issue is that kids today quit too easily compared, hence necessitating all the hand-holding. This is why people think Dark Souls is a really hard game when in truth, it’s just a game that doesn’t hold your hand as tightly as other games.

    I say this as someone with teaching experience, and many other teachers have noticed this trend over the years, you have to give a lot more simple to the point instructions than before. I blame the “everyone’s a winner!”-mentality that’s being drilled into their heads.

    #138486
    Profile photo of haxo
    haxo
    Member

    “The problem isn’t specifically that they target lazy kids nowadays. The issue is that kids today quit too easily compared, hence necessitating all the hand-holding.”

    ^It’s a bit contradicting.

    Also did it strike you that they might have become lazy because of stuff like handholding?
    Rather than working against it; nintendo embraces it > it will result in the brats becoming even lazier.

    FUCK YOU NINTENDO, I THOUGH THAT JAPANESE PEOPLE VALUED HONOUR. BUT YOU ARE JUST SELL OUT HOES.

    HANDHOLDING IS WAY MORE HARMFUL THAN VIDEO GAME VIOLENCE !

    #138488
    Profile photo of BluHawk007
    bluehawk007
    Member

    @nara

    1) This remake has nothing to do with Nintendo’s trend of innovating/doing different things. Innovation and change is for NEW games, not remakes. Thats a completely unrelated problem with Nintendo. (something which they seem to be fixing…slowly, but they are thankfully) You can’t use that as an argument regarding this remake.

    2) People love the game FOR the old mechanics along with its world and lore. And the OoT remake had barely any changes to it, there was absolutely no need to go overboard for this game.

    3) If you go into a game where you’re supposed to repeat a 3 day cycle and expect it to be new and varied every time then I don’t know what to say. Of course theres a feeling of repetition, thats the point. You’re forced to live the same days over and over until you can stop doomsday. And besides, if you actually progress through the game and take in the world and all its characters then it won’t feel repetitious past the first cycle because then you’ll be making progress and exploring the world of Termina.

    4) How the hell is making mobility in the world limited an improvement? The swimming, ESPECIALLY THE SWIMMING, was an absolute BLAST! AND THEY’RE LIMITING IT! How is that good in any sense?! As for the Deku Water Skipping, they actually made it HARDER! AND LESS FUN!

    5) The ice arrow placement is just unnecessary handholding. At this point they should have just put bridges in the level instead as the ice arrows are pointless when it comes to platform creation. And it wouldn’t be as bad if they didn’t remove the ability to freely make platforms anywhere there is water…BUT THEY DID! Limiting the player =/= good man. Especially in a remake where the original had more freedom than the actual remake!

    6) I want to apologize in advance because I’m going to sound like a complete asshole here but…Just because you couldn’t beat the game without a guide on your first try doesn’t mean its nearly impossible. Many, MANY people have done it before. Its not nearly as hard as people say it is. Its just a challenging Zelda game, something that we haven’t had much of as of late with the newer releases. (Link Between Worlds says hello!)

    7) This also brings up an important question: Who was more whiny? The people who beat the original, loved it, and are disappointed with the remake’s changes OR the people who gave up, threw the controller down, and said it was too hard?

    There is a huge difference between making a game more accessible, while still maintaining the feel of the original game, and just flat out changing it too much to the point where it doesn’t feel the same.

    A good example of a well done change was the saving system. You can access the save points during the first three day cycle as Deku Link now and they littered the world with more save points for convenience. Thats a GOOD change and makes the game more accessible while also making it more convenient for a handheld system.

    And, you know what, if there was only one of these changes in the game (like the Deku Water Skipping) I WOULD be able to look past it. However, the little changes that diminish the game’s quality, while many minor, add up resulting in a far larger problem than if you looked at them individually.

    AND NO THE ZORA SWIMMING CHANGE IS NOT MINOR. IT IS HUGE AND VERY, VERY IRRITATING.

    To make a silly comparison: Let’s say I broke one your lego minifigures. Its only one figurine, its fine and not that big of a problem. Now, lets say I broke 30 more, THEN we have a problem. Thats basically the situation here.

    And the worst part is that this could have all been avoided if Nintendo had put in a “new mode” and a “original mode.” It would have been very easy to program in as it would literally just be a straight port of the original game with upgraded graphics and framerate at that point.

    Feel free to be entitled to your opinion on the changes in the remake but I, along with many others, will not be persuaded.

    (Again, I apologize for essentially targeting you in my 6th point, but it had to be said that way in order for me to get the point across correctly. Sorry if the way I said that pisses you off. :c)

    #138489
    Profile photo of tgorman83
    tgorman83
    Member

    I think its a bit of a stereotype to assume that all the young gamers and kids in general today quit too easily. Where is the proof that shows that is actually true? Sure some games are easier today but thats mainly due to the fact that games of all skill sets can be made today. I don’t think making things easier to understand equals hand holding. Look at Super Meat boy or binding of isaac. Those games have controls that are easy to pick up and play while at the same time the games are super tough. As someone else with teaching experience I can say that children are a lot more clever than people give them credit for. Also @haxo calm down. There is no need to go off on that all Caps rant at the end of your last post.

    #138494
    Profile photo of Popo
    captainpopo
    Member

    Majora’s Mask is one of my favorite games ever and I’d like to think is also my favorite Zelda.
    Some of things I saw from this versions made me go “huh, neat, okay, well that’s different” but nothing more. On the matter of the ice arrows, yeah thats dumb but the rest don’t bother me at all and after watching some videos on the Zora swimming….it’s not that big of a deal. You can even maneuver way easier in tight corridors but I guess no one cares about that, instead let’s just point out the negative side.

    Majora’s Mask is a game that I love for the way the world makes you feel, it’s frigging alive. It’s not just populated like in Ocarina or Twilight Princess in which NPC’s stand in a town to make it feel crowded. In MM, these characters have routines, they got things to do and you might miss them because they aren’t waiting for you. It’s a fantastic atmosphere that isn’t replicated in many Zeldas.

    Last thing :

    -Fishing…why? The heck is the point or reward?
    -Deku Link doesn’t look like wood anymore

    These are some of the worst changes?
    Man, how preposterous! How dare Deku Link doesn’t look like wood and adding fishing?!?! Simply deplorable!
    This is a joke but seriously, worst changes?

    #138495
    Profile photo of BluHawk007
    bluehawk007
    Member

    @captainpopo
    LOL thats what I get for creating a thread while sleepy. xD

    Probably should’ve put those under “weird changes that I don’t understand the point of.”

    #138498
    Profile photo of tgorman83
    tgorman83
    Member

    @Bluhawk by that same notion, just because you and many other people have beat the game without a guide before doesn’t there aren’t an equal number of people who have played the game who have struggled with it because they play games differently than others do. Also I wouldn’t exactly say that the lego comparison matches the changes in majoras mask. One is a series of changes in a game the other is someone being a jerk and deliberately breaking something someone made for no reason. I still say people should wait until the game comes out and play the game and experience the changes for themselves before a final verdict on it is made.
    Also Bluhawk I think you should keep making threads while sleepy from time to time. Look at all the actual,reasonable discussions about the game we are having in this thread.

    #138499
    Profile photo of TJgalon
    TJgalon
    Member

    A lot of people have been saying the game is still great, even if some do dislike some of the bad changes.

    I guess one down side, with it being a little easier, less frage, lol, though I bet the chat will help by giving 180 help, lol.

    #138508

    The only time I dislike hand-holding is when it’s extremely unnecessary. But it doesn’t look like this game’s gonna hold your hand from start to finish. Yes, it does look easier than the original game, but Nintendo knows that what made Majora’s Mask special to most people is how the puzzles took actual thought to solve. And something tells me they don’t wanna break that mojo.

    #138511
    Profile photo of BluHawk007
    bluehawk007
    Member

    @tgorman83

    Ultimately, it is a toss up I suppose. Every game has players that beat it and those that don’t afterall. However, I would much prefer if companies started appealing a bit more to those whom want a more challenging experience. (for example a new Mario that is challenging the whole way through would be awesome!) Or at the very least just use other methods of making their game more approachable to noobs of the franchise. (Kinda like what Fire Emblem did with its casual and classic modes and the difficulty mixing. I think that was a good way to make everyone be able to play the game while still maintaining the challenge of previous titles)

    #138515
    Profile photo of haxo
    haxo
    Member

    It is such a shame that Nintendo have turned into a company that only target young kids….

    They used to make games suited for all ages!

    #138525
    Profile photo of TJgalon
    TJgalon
    Member

    I think that harsh Haxo, as Majora Mask, is still the same game, these minor changes really don’t effect the game as a core. I say, if your still unsure of the game, wait till they play it here on the show, as I belive they will be , hopefully, or if not, check out someone else channel.

    #138541

    @haxo Yeah, this game wasn’t made for kids, but was made to better suit kids. There’s a bit of a difference there. This game was still made for all audiences to enjoy.

    #138707
    Profile photo of Evanatt
    Evanatt
    Member

    I personally have both version, so I can always go back to the old and play that one if I want to XD.

    But yeah, there are some changes in the 3D version, like few stray fairies are located little bit different (plus color order), bosses are different fought a little bit. Clock town main street feel larger than the original version.
    And yes I just recently got the Zora, it’s super slow compared to the old MM, but probably plays about the same as TP or SS in speed.

    For me, it’s mostly the zora link that annoys me a bit, the rest I can deal with. Some of the changes are good I think, like the save function. And I for one do kinda like you can skip forward to exact times, instead of just standing and waiting doing nothing while waiting for events to happen. And goron link feels better (faster to punch).
    I don’t understand the complain about the bomber book? It look pretty similar as before?, except you can get “rumors” (hint) from the bomber members here and there if you choose to talk to them regular, and that it note down more things you have already done. But you still seem to need go around and talk to people to get stuff done, the book doesn’t seem to tell you exactly what you’re supposed to do beforehand you have gotten to know it from that person.

    Oh and it is a little bit weird with the eye thing on the boss battles, a bit overdone and distracting from the idea that it’s about the mask being the evil part.

    • This reply was modified 2 years ago by Profile photo of Evanatt Evanatt.
    #139232
    Profile photo of TJgalon
    TJgalon
    Member

    So, the game been out, anyone tried it. My friend been enjoying it.

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