Lack Of Communication

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This topic contains 38 replies, has 22 voices, and was last updated by  FistOfFiori 3 days, 19 hours ago.

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  • #173162

    ILoveVGA
    Member

    I’m sure we have all been patient with Fraser and Becky in their move to Japan. It was a big thing and I enjoyed Fraser’s vlogs immensely. But now that the show has started back up and they’ve been giving regular shows, I think its not only unprofessional but incredibly rude and dismissive towards the patreons and turbos that we don’t get any updates for sometimes a full week.

    Fraser’s last show/tweet was on the 4th of November. It is now the 10th. I, for one, would love to know what he/Becky is up to during that time. I don’t mean what they are up to in their daily lives, I mean – if they aren’t doing shows are they in meetings with Breaker Japan? Is Fraser putting stuff together for the show? Or are they taking bike rides around Japan and having naps on hammocks or having riveting games of Overwatch?

    I signed up for their Patreon when they moved to Japan. I wanted to support them and I feel like I’ve gotten my money’s worth and I really enjoy the show still. I won’t be “unsubscribing” from Patreon or Youtube. I just want to be able to tell Fraser that when you have a fanbase that gives you money, it’s not out of the goodness of our hearts. We expect shows in return. And when you go almost a full week without any updates it kind of makes us feel like you’re taking advantage of us.

    I know this will come across as me being selfish or petty. “They don’t owe us anything”. That would be true, if we weren’t supporting them through Patreon. That’s just my feelings on the issue. Does anyone else feel the same? I really hated writing this but… it’s just annoying when the creator of one of the only internet shows I enjoy seems dismissive of the job and life his fans have given him.

Viewing 30 replies - 1 through 30 (of 38 total)
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  • #173165

    merme
    Member

    Which twitter account of theirs do you follow? They tweet quite a bit on their more personal accounts, Fraser’s being @FarFromSubtle and Becky’s being @missblow.

    #173168

    FFSTV
    Member

    Wow.

    #173202

    Is there a line in their pateron that says “we will update you almost daily”?
    If not, then this is not a requirement!

    #173211

    VgaFan
    Member

    While not a requirement I do think it is one that most of the community would appreciate. Though since moving to Japan the updates have gotten better and the schedule is much more consistent. I think in addition to tweeting about upcoming shows and times; it would be nice if Fraser could tweet when they’re not planning to go live for the day or next couple days. This would be useful especially in times where they haven’t gone live in 2-5 days. That’s just my suggestion from a long time viewer I still love watching the shows.

    #173432

    zzguy
    Member

    I wonder if they look at their subreddit, its pretty disheartening. I personally dont have the money to be a patron, but if I did i too would be upset if my money wasn’t giving me anything in return. Patreon isn’t a charity, after all. It just seems like they don’t finish anything anymore, which in many cases leads to more disappointment then not playing something at all.

    #173440

    bundro
    Member

    Get away from the site for months and…yay…another “they don’t do the thing I would like them to do” thread. My 2 cents, I honestly hope they DON’T read any reddit or subreddit because I hope they aren’t the type of people who give a crap what random people think about what they are doing for a living. You’d get a better response with a post that is a request to go back to a game rather than “they don’t finish things anymore. They are using Patreon as a charity”. It is up to those that donate to decide if they are getting “anything in return”. While you post, I’ll check at the NFL website to see if you also posted there saying 1 game a week isn’t enough and leads to disappointment.

    #173441

    boloneyman
    Member

    I feel like the subreddit is quick to fire up discussion when there is a lull in shows (like during the holidays or during the move) but I check everytime a new episode is posted and there is no discussion going on. Some valid points are raised here and there but some of the stuff they write is really mean and is not constructive at all. I also hope they don’t browse the subreddit.

    #173446

    euske
    Member

    Uh… actually, I do think that Patreon is kinda charity. I throw a few bucks to several creators there, but I don’t even consume the most stuff they created. I just pay them because I believe that they should continue what they’re doing. My money is not for payment, but for encouragement. In a year or so later, if I see they’re still going, I’d say my money was well spent. If you want an immediate return, maybe Patreon isn’t the right place for you.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by  euske.
    #173448

    Sylian
    Member

    Let’s be real here: Most Patreons don’t give benefits that are nearly worth what you’re paying for. If you’re paying for VGA Patreon, you’re probably not doing it because you think the rewards are worth it, but because you want to support them and the show. So I agree with euske here, Patreon is mostly charity/supporting content creators.

    #173449

    Sarkin
    Member

    When I heard Becky and Fraser talk about their scheduling plans after the God of War stream, I thought it was tremendously exciting.

    There is such a horrendous glut of content in the world right now. Everyone has a backlog of movies/TV/games/books/podcasts/streams/whatever that they want to enjoy. There’s no shortage. I would much rather have 2-3 shows per week that they can really pour their energies into than 4-6 shows that are of varying quality. That means higher-quality entertainment for us and more time for everyone. Seems like a win-win to me; I wish all content creators had a similar mentality.

    #173451

    FistOfFiori
    Member

    They spoke about plans stream? Cool, will check the VOD.

    In terms of this thread and regular communication, it’s there, you just need to find it. Maybe it doesn’t happen every stream, but once the gameplay is done and they take themselves off screen (which would be the end of the video on YouTube), they usually say what day they’re streaming next, what game. At least whenever I catch them live anyway. Plus now on Twitter they’re advertising streams further in advance.

    More and more people don’t like to schedule their streams. What if Fraser said “we’re playing Octopath on Friday and God of War on Saturday” then when it gets to those days he’d rather play red dead? People would complain then. Best off just going with the flow and doing what he feels like playing. Why do you think he played Overwatch so much at points? He enjoyed it and Turbos seemed to too.

    Plus Xmas Vlog (after this thread started I know) heralded the news of new Ace Attorney + the costumes making a return (mentioned it for AA mainly but was worded like ‘the first return to costumes’ – paraphrasing).

    On the subject of Patreon. Sort of agree with Euske and Sylian it’s a charity though in my view it’s more a “tip jar”. If you enjoy, tip, it helps towards the livelyhood. And whether you see it as that or charity then remember it’s completely optional! I still do it as I like the show. Same with a few other channels on there.

    And yeah Boloneyman I agree, they should steer clear of Reddit though probably. Does get ‘below the belt’ there.

    Sorry, very rambling reply! And I’m tired and possibly missed the point, but hey.

    #173465

    Polydrupe
    Member

    It is unfortunate that the community is split in half between this forum and the subreddit, each one mostly being an echo chamber of people who have the same opinion. Exceptions such as this thread are too rare to allow an actual discussion about the state of the show and the concerns that part of the audience has. It feels like all the constructive criticism is either ignored or buried under a ton of pointless rants. And the fact that this forum isn’t very active doesn’t help also. Are there been any discussion about creating an official VGA Discord channel? I think it’d be a great alternative and an easy option for fans to interact with each other through convos or voicechats.

    On a side note, I really liked the state of the awesome adress format. Short, informative, easy to find and concise. For occasionnal viewers, it’s a great way to keep up with the news. I haven’t seen one posted in a while, though.

    #173466

    lionheart21
    Member

    “When you have a fanbase that gives you money, it’s not out of the goodness of our hearts. We expect shows in return.”

    Dude, what the hell kinda entitled BS is that? Fraser and Becky may have a show that’s given us entertainment over the years, but after the show ends, they’re both still people that have other things to do in their lives. They have a completely new country that they’re living in and adapting to. There’s also Fraser working on editing and preparing to post the next season of AVG, aside from dealing with the technical and business end of the show.

    They gave me a community in a time when I needed one the most, so unless they do or say something that is disgustingly offensive, they’ve got my support for as long as I can do so. And that is out of the goodness of my heart.

    #173469

    aughts
    Keymaster

    There is an unofficial VGA Discord server, linked at the bottom of each mod report. Forums as a medium have been in decline for years, so it’s no surprise that ours reflects that, and Reddit is purpose-built to be removed from outside communities, so again no surprise that there’s never been any real movement there (though we’re definitely in no way split between here and there, that place is mostly dust, salt, and spam at this point).

    I’m not interested in speaking for Fraser. Don’t get paid enough for that noise (don’t get paid at all, whaheyyyy). But for those who feel Frash and Beck don’t see your feedback, maybe just take a step back and think about how much the show has changed over the years, for however you feel that is, good or ill. All of that change was borne on the back of community interaction. Heck, our hosts interact more directly with their fans on a week to week basis than any other streamers I’ve ever seen, simply by their style of chat involvement alone, and they’ve been doing that for how many years now? They see every criticism, constructive or not.

    My two cents.

    #173470

    I would love to put down my honest two cents about VGA but I don’t think it would be taken well, and it’s very optimistic to think it will be taken well by a community where many members are friends with the hosts who they see up to twice a year. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. I’ve wanted a weekend with Turbos since I was younger, but can’t really afford it since I’m a student. I’ll try to point out that I fell out of love with this community a long time ago, but never stopped watching the show up until a few years ago. I mainly exclusively watch the group shows until those obviously stopped. I have a lot of conflicting feelings about this show and community, I’ll talk about those before I get into my complaints about the way the show is going currently.

    I’ve been a fan here since about 2006. So back in the early days of Awesome Video Games. I was about 10 years old. I stayed on as VGA started and eclipsed Awesome Video Games in popularity. When I was 14, streaming was starting to become actually possible. Streaming video games used to be so fucking niche that it was a tiny spot on Justin.tv for that. I remember watching the very first livestreams on that site.

    Anyway, I joined the Minecraft on like day 1, before we had a whitelist for it. Then before we had a $5 whitelist for it because assholes were constantly destroying stuff. I founded Snarf City on that server. Before my computer broke, I became a COM (Basically a baby mod) and got to talk with the mod team. It was cool feeling involved even though I felt it wouldn’t have happened had they known my age at the time (14 years old, that’s a dangerous age to be given power though I thought I was good with it. Always asked permission before I did ANYTHING). I’m an RA at my dorm now so it’s kind of funny that I basically have the same job but now I get paid for it.

    I was only on the team for a year before I was booted. Rather rudely I might add. Most of the mod team are great people and some of the friendliest people I have met. I have fallen out of contact with most of them but that’s mainly due to being busy. After that the community just felt odd and uninviting and being in the chatroom just wasn’t fun anymore. I was constantly being timed out for pretty trivial shit (It isn’t a spoiler if the event literally happened 20 seconds ago) and some mods just felt like they had it out for me. So I stopped hanging out in the chat for most shows. I got yelled at if I talked about the game, I got yelled at if I talked about anything tangentially related to the game, I got yelled at if I just talked with turbo members, so what the fuck was the point of me showing up?

    I’ve rambled long enough, so what’s my biggest problem with the show so far? Well there’s two problems I have. My first problem is that I don’t think Fraser takes criticism very well. Sometimes he does a really good job with it. I thought the incident with the Smash Bros community was awesome and I was really proud to be a fan of someone who would be told “hey you’re speaking in ignorance” and then go do research and evolve their opinion. That was great. What doesn’t go well is when someone expresses criticism of how Fraser himself handles the show or how he kind of has a tendency to get incredibly negative right off the bat and then just soil the experience for himself and the chat. I remember Alien Isolation being a really frustrating show because Fraser just didn’t like it going into it, it would be fine if he played a few hours and went “Yeah, it’s not for me. I don’t like it.” Instead he stretched 40 minutes of the game into 2 hours and spent the whole time just shitting on it. If someone expresses the opposing opinion in chat, Fraser might make a pretty negative comment and that dude in the chat will just get dog piled on by the rest of the chat. I have been that person in that situation and It. Is. Not. Fucking. Fun. Really doesn’t make you feel wanted. At all.

    Part of the problem is that the Chat is entirely text. Sometimes the subtext behind a message gets lost when reading it. Everything feels a lot harsher when said to you in text rather than in person. It’s much easier to send hurtful messages because you aren’t as emotionally connected to what you are saying. I have all of my life, tried my damn best to be careful of that. So if Fraser sees something that can be misconstrued as mean, he will misconstrue it as such. That isn’t a fault on him, that’s a fault on the way we communicate with him. What is not okay, is the way he will sometimes respond to these comments.

    I don’t remember exactly what happened. I don’t even remembered what I said. But it was during e3 last year (I think? It might have been a show and trailer before that). I made a joke, the joke got parroted by the rest of the chat. The joke was not mean spirited in anyway, I don’t even remember what the joke was, that’s how little I thought of it. But Fraser didn’t take the joke well and got mad at us. Afterwards he made a comment on Twitter about how “Show and Trailers tend to bring in the ‘drive by Turbos’.” As someone who has tried to keep up with the show, but can’t because of my schedule and how hard it is to know what shows are coming and the fact that I only tend to like group shows, it really feels insulting to have Fraser imply that me and other Turbos who don’t have the same level of dedication aren’t real fans. I don’t know if that was the message he was trying to send off because it’s a pure text message, but that’s the message I got. My already dwindling enthusiasm for the show kind of died there.

    My 2nd problem, Patreon. Patreon was both the best and worst thing that ever happened to this show. Best in that Fraser and Becky no longer had to stress out about money and live paycheck to paycheck. In 2011 and 2012, the constant streaming was because Fraser, Becky, and Ben had to do it in order to make ends meet. With Youtube constantly fucking them over, they were kind of reliant on donations and Turbos to keep them afloat. However, after Patreon became a factor of the show the streams became incredibly infrequent. I mainly tuned in for Show and Trailers and those started to happen less often. Awesome Video Games was promised and it took almost two years and a deadline for Fraser to get started on producing it and the hard deadline meant that many of the Patreon promises had to be cut. I remember the Sponsor a Show Tier only had one donor and took almost a year for that show to be done. No more long hauls, that just never happens anymore. Since we now had the ability to basically pay for a guest’s appearance on the show, I was hoping that it would be done so Ben could join Fraser and Becky for long hauls again, since it wouldn’t be financial suicide for him to do it anymore. The show mostly worked because Fraser has incredibly good chemistry with all of his friends, but he’s not quite comfortable doing solo streams. The odd solo streams back then were kind of fun, they were usually during holidays and it really just felt kind of nice to chill out while Fraser played something that wasn’t quite fun for the show but something that he at least was interested in checking out. I don’t find them particularly interesting enough to go out of my way to watch though.

    It also led to the feeling that I don’t think Fraser is particularly interested in Video Games or the show anymore. It’s kind of like going through an incredibly stressful ordeal in your life and then once you come out on top, stop carrying about it anymore. Fraser and Becky basically came out on top when they went on Patreon. They have more money than they’ve had before and with that, far less stress to keep the show going and innovating. The problem is, once you lose your passion as a content creator, the fans will sense it. For the first month of the move to Japan, I understood the lack of shows. Fraser and Becky want to get settled in and figure things out. Then they got back up online and the show just feels kind of…I don’t know, unambitious? Fraser doesn’t have the gang to make a playlist of trailers for, so he just watches them on Youtube instead when fans suggest stuff for him. Then I found out they only plan on streaming two days a week for a couple of hours. For those thinking this is normal streaming behavior, it isn’t for most streamers. I don’t even watch most streamers, but the reason those on top are on top is because they have serious self-discipline. You have to for a job where you are essentially your own boss. Fraser and Becky’s move to Japan should’ve lit a fire under their butt to really figure out how the show was going to proceed from there. It’s a huge change and not an easy one to figure out but it doesn’t really feel like a whole lot of effort is going into it. I fucking hesitate to say this because I’m basically accusing them of being lazy but if fans don’t say anything then how are they supposed to improve at all? This is where I differ from a ton of Turbos, if I see the same shit from fans being said for three fucking years at this point, I tend to treat it as an accurate grievance. Some of these complaints I have voiced have been voiced constantly for the past couple of years.

    I don’t expect this post to be taken seriously or for people on here to agree with. However, to anyone who just writes me off as an old, bitter fan, or not a “real fan.” Go fuck yourself. This show got me through High School, I watched every video from Freshman year to Senior year, even after I fell out of love with the community. It’s 2018, I’ve been watching this channel for eleven years. I’m 22 years old and I still care. These are my grievances as an honest fan of eleven years.

    #173473

    aughts
    Keymaster

    Hey, servebotfrank. Long time, no see.

    That’s a lot of text, a lot of your story. Own it.

    I won’t speak for other mods (they don’t pay me either, etc, jokes), but I think it’s fine for people to not like the show. I’m rather forward with the fact that I don’t really watch it, which is why I, somewhat selfishly, don’t moderate show chat. And just like everyone else, my experience with the community is colored a bit differently because of how I take it in (probably a bit more pleasant, most days). Because we take in the parts we experience directly, I take in a small community, mostly the Minecraft server and our myriad Discord servers, hanging out and being pals, with the show just being a loose connection between all of us.

    Wanted to say that to frame how I say this next thing, which could come off as a bit callous, though I don’t intend it that way. If you’re a fan of a thing, but have been unhappy with it, and the way you take it in for years, why not move on? There are unending and unendingly new experiences out there waiting for you.

    You’ve solved the problem of why the show isn’t like it used to be for you, and you’re not alone in that, others have said similar things. You’re not a fake fan for that, you’re an unhappy one. But, again, years. Actual years. Percentage points of your whole damn life.

    I like Fraser and Becky, I think they’re good people, but I don’t expect more than I get out of them because they’ve given me good friends to hang out with. So… I get my good experience daily.

    In truth, the forum is probably the worst part of my experience. It’s somewhat dusty, somewhat salty, and occasionally spammy. And when I tap in to reply to threads like this, I usually get sardonic and on a high horse (read: unhelpful). Not my better moments, to be sure. I always hope to be able to rein that in, though, and get helpful. So let this be the way I help, today.

    If anyone reading this is unhappy in your experience, in this show or beyond, step back and take in the wide view. Gauge how much you’re willing to take of your situation. If you’ve still got it in you, then by all means, lean in. See if you can effect that change.

    But you deserve to be happy in your experience, and maybe it’s just that there’s no happy to be found where you are right now.

    I’m having trouble ending this thought process. Just… there are plenty of shows out there on the internet I used to participate in, and now I don’t. They’re still going strong and doing all the things I started getting annoyed at them for. If I stayed with them longer than I wanted, blame sunk cost fallacy. I supported them this long, why not see if they get back to what I want? But that’s not really healthy, and we’re lucky enough to live in the GLUT OF CONTENT moment in time. Choose your poison (or don’t, jokes).

    EDIT: Here’s a corollary because I missed an important point I was also aiming for, and the whole reason I brought up my own POV on the community. My community here is different from anyone else’s, because of how I define my experience. You can, if you’re willing, reframe your experience within a thing if you can just excise the parts of the thing that don’t interest you. Depends on how vital you feel the parts you want to excise are to that thing as a whole.

    Also, sorry if it feels like I didn’t really address your post, servebotfrank. It’s a good post, and communicates effectively why you have the current view you do. Thus: Own it.

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  aughts.
    #173475

    There’s one major huge problem.
    Communities are way too split. You got Discord, these forums, reddit (which I did not even know about).
    Fraser & Becky can’t read them all, but I wonder what they even read in the first place.
    I sometimes make threads to pass on some info, but never know if they even saw.

    As far as the show quality goes. They do feel a bit lacking, especially if you don’t like the game. The motivation will come down to their backers.. if they’re not happy, Fraser will have to put more effort into the show. If they think it’s fine, things will stay.
    Speak with your wallet…
    For now, will check them out every now and then (mainly for direct reactions).

    #173529

    I agree, I check the show out every now and then hoping it’s made some improvement. A few years ago I would argue that this was THE best gaming show on Youtube. However, I have a really hard time recommending the channel at it’s current state and it can be a little frustrating that no criticism will be listened to.

    I’ll be honest, I was finally financially sufficient enough to donate to Patreon recently. However I am not doing it because I’m not happy with the show at it’s current form. Nothing against Fraser and Becky as people, but I’m disappointed.

    #173539

    nara
    Member

    So I wanna add my personal experiences here. I have been an avid viewer a few years ago (Right around the time they started Phoenix Wright).I have been watching less and less as time went on and it saddens me quite a bit. The show somehow ended up going into a direction where I completely lost interest. I only have so much time to watch stuff and I’d rather watch something else. The quality itself for me is fine. I like the setup and stuff and I love the cats being in the show, too. Adds a new layer to it. What I really enjoyed were the Persona 5 episodes, but they weren’t done more.

    there’s a distinct problem here. The games they play for a long haul I have actually no interest in and the games they try out are the ones I am interested in seeing. And I think this might be due to a shift in games the show has done, since my taste for games has not changed that much. And yes, games they don’t play for a long haul is not worth watching, because I want to see their reactions to games I love.

    For Example: I would have loved a playthrough of Celeste, it is my favourite game of 2018. But this is one of the games they stopped doing. I started to watch their episodes, but gave up half way disappointed that they didn’t finish through.
    And the games they have been playing I have no interest whatsoever. Like God of War or RDR2. For one, I might wanna play them some time myself and 2 they are not as entertaining to watch.

    I’m not sure where the show should head for me to watch again, but promising indie games might be a good idea. Or older Games and classics, since I tend to watch them more frequently.

    #173543

    sh00n
    Member

    The problem with the channel is there has been a huge decline in quality for years now. And there have been stats posted online showing how much the viewership and support has gone down too. I used to watch VGA for hours daily; I haven’t watched a full show in years now. It used to be the best LP channel on YouTube – today it’s just not fun anymore. And the real problem is instead of taking constructive criticism, Fraser will just block anyone who brings this up with him on Twitter.

    And I get that posting my feelings on the channel here will get backlash from a lot of people who will defend Fraser’s every move, but the proof is in the views and stats online. The channel’s quality went downhill when Ben left again and now it’s almost non existent that none of the guys can physically be on the show anymore. Ben was the perfect balance because he challenged Fraser on certain things and their banter made it fun. Now almost every episode begins with 45 minutes of Fraser criticizing the graphics and talking about bump mapping while Becky is asking him if he sees any anti-aliasing. It’s a bummer to watch VGA these days.

    I’m literally watching Minecraft Survival as I type this. I miss what this channel used to be.

    #173552

    We can’t really judge the channel based on views. They took a 6 month break after all.
    It be neat if we could see their patreon stats, but doubt it.

    Patreon supports the show.. For anyone feels the show isn’t up to standard, maybe it’s time to prolong that next turboship.
    Or donate a bit less.

    It would be wrong/bad if there was a massive decline in patreon support.. However, if donations fell short enough that Fraser & Becky can survive, but feels a bit more pressured to put out more/better content.. then that would be helpful for all!

    #173556

    lionheart21
    Member

    @sh00n: As someone who usually will have Fraser’s back a lot, I actually can understand where you’re coming from. The show is still quite entertaining to me, but the show really was at its heyday when there was a 3-person crew since there was a different perspective to add to things, as well as Ben’s unique personality. The idea behind the show seems to really focus on the casual side of gaming, and while I’m down with that, I can also understand that it won’t gel with some people and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that.

    The older shows are still on YouTube and they’ll always be there. And maybe someday, things will change again.

    EDIT: However, having the guys all the time wasn’t ever really a long-term prospect, though. Kyle and Deacon both have other jobs and families and lives of their own, and even though Ben leaving the show was something that affected the overall dynamic of the show, he did so because he saw a better financial opportunity and he took it and I can’t fault him for doing so. There’s no doubt that in a perfect world, they would have always been on the show together, but this isn’t a perfect world. Things change in ways that sometimes we don’t want them to change. Fraser has stated a little while back that they do plan on still getting the guys physically on the show once or twice a year (in some cases, working out a setup that can get them onscreen for their reactions, such as the upcoming Mortal Kombat 11 show) and doing some multiplayer shows with all of the guys together during the times that they’re there, but again, that all comes down to getting the guys at a time when all of their schedules can allow it.

    And for the constructive criticism part, the show is Fraser’s baby and he’s always done things his way, even when some people have asked if they can help on the technical side. Some people can take offense to people telling them how to do things, and if you’re doing an online show, you can get a lot of those people all at once; and that can build up to the point where you don’t wanna hear anybody having issues. Not to defend him blocking anyone, I can’t speak for him there, but I’m just giving an example of a situation where these things can happen.

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 1 day ago by  lionheart21.
    • This reply was modified 1 week, 1 day ago by  lionheart21.
    • This reply was modified 1 week, 1 day ago by  lionheart21.
    #173564

    Doesn’t the “Wow” reply from Fraser just tell you how he just doesn’t care about the show anymore? Any sane person would actually address and try to understand your complaints/problems with the show. But Fraser just thinks he is so perfect and nothing is wrong with his show. He thinks all criticism is all from “trolls” but it’s actually from long time fans that wish the show could go back to what it was years ago.

    I know that isn’t really possible because the guys are gone (for the most part, I know they could return via Skype/other video calling programs or them actually being on set). But we just want the show to be back professionally. What that means is no cats on set, no eating during the show (during breaks is fine), pay more attention to the game,stop acting bored during the show.

    -NintendoMaster

    #173565

    Yea the cats & eating is bringing down the quality as well. The cats bring the gameplay to a complete halt. It’s cute at first, but gets more and more annoying as it happens more and more.

    I didn’t mind the eating thing that much, but if it happens too often, it’s not good for the show.
    It works better as short breaks.

    #173567

    smith
    Member

    I’ve been watching since the first Minecraft show and it’s a shame to see my favourite show deteriorate like it has.

    I get the impression that Fraser doesn’t enjoy doing this content any more. The professional tone and (attempts at) punctuality of the earlier show is gone, and his attitude has gone downhill fast. And since the guys stopped being part of the equation, he dominates the show with that attitude. I really think that if he’s stopped enjoying it, then he should stop. Imo the move to Japan was the perfect stopping point; they could have transferred into J-blogging pretty seamlessly.

    Instead, because their main income stream is the VGA patreon, they stagger forward, keeping this husk alive. It’s not good for them or the fanbase, but until people pull their funding Fraser will keep putting in the minimum of effort.

    #173573

    lionheart21
    Member

    Alright, I was just gonna let this one slide since I already said my piece, but seeing how this is basically breaking down into “This is Why I feel the show sucks nowadays,” rather than having constructive criticism as I feel that @servebotfrank did, I gotta throw my hat in the ring again since my initial post didn’t seem to work. So if my words don’t do it, then I’ll do one better and use the his own words. This post came from Fraser himself last year, and to @gukingofheart of all people, in the subreddit thread.

    “If by “turn things around” you mean make major changes to the show or the current way things are done then keep this in mind: we are very comfortable with ourselves and the current state of VGA no matter how you perceive it, and so are the majority of the audience. We will be focussing in Japan on recreating the same thing we have going right now in North America. Think about that. Think about what that means to your time spent watching us and whether you actually enjoy the show or just find yourself annoyed or complaining more than you do looking forward to another episode. Consider your fandom and whether you and the show are a good fit.”

    You even stated that you felt it was a fair response, stating, “Fair enough of a response. Nothing more to say from me.” and yet here you are again, doing the same tired old song and dance. I’ve also noticed that you’ve basically been beating the whole “Fraser must not like dong this anymore” since 2016, in the thread, “IS VGA Losing its Magic?”, 2 years before they moved. You can see that the show won’t ever be as you want it to be again, and yet you keep sticking around and continue to complain. No real constructive criticism (unless I missed it), just seeming like you want the show back exactly the way that you want it. Call me a fanboy if you wish, call me an ass-kisser as well (I’m firmly in the former category rather than the latter, for what its worth), but I’d rather view it as what it is: brutal honesty. And to get me to break out of my whole casual mindset that I’m usually always in is a feat in and of itself.

    To end this, K-16 said this a few years back, it still stands up.

    “And finally, Patreon backers can remove their pledges, so it’s not like Fraser and Becky has guaranteed financial security. His business isn’t automated to make money. Doesn’t work that way. Plus their monthly living expenses are different from a typical family given the nature of their business (multiple ISPs likely on corporate plans, skyrocketed electricity bill, shared proceeds with VGA gang, presumably contracted Kyle for AVG set building, etc.). I actually see $4K as just making ends meet. So the lack of shows does hurt Fraser’s business if Patreon backers don’t maintain their faith in FFSTV. Which is why… They’re not relaxing. At all. No I don’t consider the midnight hike as a vacation. That’s just part of a single day, so it’s more of a brief work break. No I don’t consider the visit to family as a vacation, since Fraser stayed behind and did Overwatch shows. I consider that more about reconnecting with loved ones, because you know… Taking family for granted is one way to build regret in life.”

    • This reply was modified 5 days, 23 hours ago by  lionheart21.
    • This reply was modified 5 days, 21 hours ago by  lionheart21.
    #173575

    sharpie43
    Member

    @lionheart21 You’re saying we’re not getting constructive criticism but I think just 3 comments up @nintendomaster summed up some of the major complaints pretty succinctly and they’re all things that could be changed right now to increase the quality of the show.

    What that means is no cats on set, no eating during the show (during breaks is fine), pay more attention to the game,stop acting bored during the show.

    While I’m sure some viewers will never be happy without Ben and the rest of the crew back, a lot of us are just hoping to see the best possible version of the show as it is right now. And whether or not you personally agree with those criticisms, they’re still constructive and I’ve seen the same sentiments expressed by a good amount of fans.

    #173576

    lionheart21
    Member

    @sharpie43 Yeah, but there’s ways of stating it that way, like I was saying @servebotfrank was doing so, he put his criticism in a way that I can agree with him on and see where he’s coming from, and also felt sorry for how he had to deal with some things that he shouldn’t have had to deal with. I agree that there could be ways to improve, there’s always room to improve something. But if you open up by stating “Fraser doesn’t care about the show anymore,” like @nintendomaster did, the first impression is that it doesn’t come across as constructive. And if you’re someone that goes on first impressions as Fraser seems to do, it’ll most likely be cast aside and viewed as just complaining, even if there are legit points that are made.

    I’ve got no issues with anyone in the community and I completely understand wanting the best possible product, we paid money to support the show. I think I may have been a bit too harsh in that post as well on @gukingofheart, so…yeah, that’s on me.

    • This reply was modified 5 days, 21 hours ago by  lionheart21.
    • This reply was modified 5 days, 21 hours ago by  lionheart21.
    • This reply was modified 5 days, 21 hours ago by  lionheart21.
    • This reply was modified 5 days, 21 hours ago by  lionheart21.
    • This reply was modified 5 days, 21 hours ago by  lionheart21.
    #173578

    bundro
    Member

    Was mid-typing but Lionheart basically said most of what I would say. I’ve said it many times before but starting out criticism, especially if it’s valid, with “He doesn’t like doing this” or “He doesn’t care about the show” your criticism good or bad will be overshadowed. Imagine going into a conversation in person and starting it out with “You’re a complete loser…but now let me give you some helpful criticism about what I would change”, how do you think that would go?

    Some of the points I think are very valid, actually. A huge pet peeve of mine is noise, so eating during the stream causes me to mute it until the food is gone, even when you say the boredom during games can be true on occasion, but many times that’s because a lot of the community recommends he plays those games. So what his options are at that point are to play a game that he’s not interested in, or just not play it and constantly get requests to play it.

    I guess my general conclusion of this is that if you want to have your criticism taken seriously don’t come across as bratty.

    #173584

    sharpie43
    Member

    @lionheart21 @bundro That makes sense, I definitely agree with you guys there. I wanted to make sure these criticisms weren’t just being ignored but I do agree that the way they get expressed is the most important thing when it comes to whether or not they’ll be taken seriously.

    And to your second point @bundro if Fraser doesn’t think he’ll enjoy a game I’d personally prefer he just not play it since I find it hard to watch the show sometimes when Fraser isn’t having fun, but I don’t know how many people would agree with me there.

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